Shundo David Haye – Zen Priest

‘Student A (Bill Shurtleff): It seems that on some evenings you emphasize the idea of non-attainment–

SR: Mm-hmm.

Bill: — and that there is nothing to do except simply to give up and to just sit and to be whatever you are at each instant.

SR: Mm-hmm.

Bill: And yet at other times, it seems that you speak of exerting your best effort. And when I think of exerting my best effort, it’s in order to attain something. In other words, exerting my best effort to keep good posture, or you said that it’s important, if you can, to cross your legs in full lotus, which is very difficult and requires great deal of effort.

SR: Yeah.

Bill: Why do you bother speaking about effort at all? Why not simply stay to the teaching of not trying to do anything at all? [5-6 words.]

SR: [Laughs.] Yeah. That is very good question. Yeah. You know– anyway, you know, even though I say stay, you know, and do whatever you like, you know, you are doing [laughs] something, you know, with some effort [laughs, laughter]. Can you do it without any effort– something? No, you cannot. Anyway you have some problem, you know. So it is better to have some good problem rather than bad one [laughs, laughter]. If you don’t sit, you know– if you don’t come to Tassajara, I don’t know what you are doing right now [laughs] at city. I don’t know [laughs, laughter].

But to have this, you know, kind of accurate, you know, understanding of ourself is very important, you know. It is like to– it is same thing to have a clock, you know. To know it is ten past nine is very important. But actually, there is no such time, you know [laughs]. It is no ten past nine, you know. When I am saying something [laughs], it will be eleven past ten [nine] [laughs]. I am pointing up– at something, you know, which is non-verbal, you know. We say “just to sit,” but this “just to sit” is extra, you know [laughs].’ (from the Suzuki Roshi Archive)