Shundo David Haye – Zen Priest

‘It’s a king thing. The way they set up their companies is a kingship. Mark Zuckerberg has complete control. He can’t be fired. He’s there for life. So they like that. But in practice, it doesn’t work that way. Because he’s got reporters annoying him. He’s got his staff. He’s got to at least give a nod to diversity or else he gets shamed. He doesn’t have the fortitude that Musk has in that regard.

So they are trying to assert themselves in what they consider a man. This is the definition of what a man is. A lot of them were not considered manly when they were in high school. Revenge of the nerds. With Mark, it’s the stupid chain and the T-shirt, which — good luck. It’s fine. I think it looks ridiculous, but fine. He likes it. Or the mixed martial arts. Or I’m going to hydrofoil. Or I’m going to work out. I’m going to show off my muscles there. That’s what Jeff Bezos is doing. Like: Here’s my muscles. Here’s my pretty fiancée. They’re trying to cosplay a version of a man. It seems pathetic to me. But I think it gives them great comfort…

I think at their heart, they do believe the version of themselves is the greatest version of man. Which would be a white-guy, supreme kind of thing. I think they actually believe that at their heart. So you’re going to see that manifested in these statements that he makes all the time. I forget what he said, but essentially: We need more South Africans here in this country — or something like that. And he’s always sort of pulling in that direction. I have never heard him express any kind of what I would consider — I’ve heard different C.E.O.s express racism. His is a different kind. It’s more around social engineering and the idea that the best people are being replaced. I think that’s really where he lives. Which is also racist, of course…

Everyone’s like: Oh, they want to reform it. I go: No, no, no, they want to burn it down and start again. This goes back to Peter Thiel. If you spend time reading Peter Thiel, that is what he’s saying: Democracy doesn’t work. We’re going to start with something else. And that is sort of the ethos of “move fast and break things” — which is a software term. They don’t want to build. They want to break. And they can’t build until you break. And that’s a disruption. Think of all the words they use. It’s all about destruction. And it’s not creative destruction. It’s: Let’s wipe the slate clean, and then we will build the civilization we want. And let us show you how we can get back to glory.

It’s that theory — but they burnish it with this techno-utopianism that is really techno-authoritarianism — that they know best, and if we just listen to them, the world would be a better place for everybody…

These people don’t care about the actual thing. They care about laying waste to it, and then saying they’ll build something better. But I don’t know what they’re going to build better. If you press them, it’s never about solutions. It’s about how everything sucks and we have to get rid of it. They never tell you what their replacement is for any of it, because they don’t have a theory of building. They have a theory of destruction…

Everything he does, he wants you to know. Because again, he is a desperate attention sponge. Why would you stay up at night talking to people named Catturd? Why? Because you have a desperately empty hole in the center of your life that you can never fill. It’s a bottomless well. And I hate to break it down like that because I’m not a psychologist, but boy, does he have a big old hole right in the center of himself. So what I think is very telling about both of these people is they do not have solutions. They only tell us what the problem is, and they don’t have a vision. Even Ronald Reagan had a vision. What is your vision except get out of my way and let me do what I want to do? That’s really the vision that I can tell. I haven’t heard what they want to make at all…

You’re operating on the idea that they care about the pain. They don’t care. They won’t take responsibility for it. Have you heard Mark Zuckerberg take responsibility for any of the problems?…

Because they have no real values. They just don’t. Elon has more values than most of them, in a weird way, even though they’re warped and twisted. So I think they’ll just go whatever way the financial markets go. That’s my feeling.’ (from the New York Times)

Having flown out of the US on inauguration day, we were somewhat at a remove from the dizzying onslaught of events that followed, though of course the news was everywhere. I am finding myself wanting to be informed about the big picture as much as the individual acts, and this interview was eye-opening.