Shundo David Haye – Zen Priest

Yaoshan

Yaoshan, Great Master Hongdao, asked novice Gao, “Did you get it by reading a sutra or from personal guidance?”
Gao said, “I didn’t get it by reading a sutra or from personal guidance.”
Yaoshan said, “There are many who don’t read a sutra or receive personal guidance. How come they don’t get it?”
Gao said, “I can’t say they don’t get it. Perhaps they don’t want to hit the mark.” (quoted in Shobogenzo Kankin)

We discussed this in Monday’s Dogen group: we assume that Yaoshan recognises Gao’s understanding, but wants to test him by asking how he achieved it. Not from external means, Gao implies. What about the other people who don’t get it from external means (ie, by not practising)? Gao doesn’t want to disparage them, but suspects “they do not dare to experience it directly,” as our other translation has it.

Responses

  1. Rosemary Avatar
    Rosemary

    Are Get it and Hit the Mark the same thing, she asks ?

    You asked me what I thought… I don’t think they are the same.

    If Get it is “understanding” to experience directly

    Then Hit the Mark may mean “effort , commitment” Perhaps they do not want to Hit the mark in the passage: could mean that they do not want to take on this effort.

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    1. Shundo David Haye Avatar
      Shundo David Haye

      Thank you Rosemary. Perhaps I would say that perhaps “getting it”, in this dialogue, is to have an intuitive understanding, and “hitting the mark” means more to acknowledge this and work with it so that it becomes more integral.
      Elsewhere Dogen talks about hitting the mark once after missing ninety-nine times, so the work comes beforehand…

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      1. Rosemary Avatar
        Rosemary

        Thank you for this thoughtful answer and for having this wonderful forum.

        My appreciation for Zen began in 1990 with classes from Paul and was inspired by Blanche and Sojun who I loved dearly. The books on my bedside are Returning to Silence and Seeds for a Boundless LIfe. Having never been interested in reading Dogen, you have inspired me to do so. Would Moon in the Dewdrop be a good book to begin?

        Loving your humor, I listened today to your dharma talk from July and a recording of you talking about your relationship to the deaths in your family. I see also a gentle and fierce side of you and am so very happy and grateful to attend Thursday drop-in and will be at your dharma talk online 10/17.

        Blessings, Rosemary

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      2. Shundo David Haye Avatar
        Shundo David Haye

        Thank you Rosemary. I appreciate your kind words. Moon in a Dewdrop is a fine collection, but as a starting point, I would try the Tenzo Kyokun with the commentary by Uchiyama Roshi – its title is How To Cook Your Life. This has the benefit of being a mix of practical and deeply philosophical, and also of being pretty short 🙏🏼

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      3. passionate1d10182421 Avatar
        passionate1d10182421

        Dear Shundo

        Thank you for this suggestion. I will embark on finding this text.

        Rosemary

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